Jon Yarlett is one of the most important voices in outsourcing and global business services, but just as importantly, he is a leading proponent in “impact sourcing,” the practice of the outsourcing services sector using their business activities to promote and support marginalized populations – not through charities, but through professional jobs, education, and economic development. While some mass media outlets and politicians seem to want to vilify the outsourcing sector, Jon explains why it is so important for both individual BPO firms and the industry in general needs to do a better job of communicating the positive impact many industry players, large and small, are having across the globe.
Cognitive Business News Executive Editor Loren Moss was able to sit down with Jon at the IAOP (International Association of Outsourcing Professionals) event in New York City, led by association founder Debi Hamill earlier this month to talk about impact sourcing’s importance. Along with Jon and his publication Intelligent Sourcing, the IAOP has been an early and important advocate of impact sourcing, and the formal initiative, the Impact Sourcing Alliance.
Cognitive Business: I’m here with Jon Yarlett. Jon is the publisher of Intelligent Sourcing, which is the best print magazine, of course, they’re digital as well, that covers sourcing and all of its iterations, whether we’re talking about back office, contact center, customer experience, IT, outsourcing, and also global business delivery. But here at IAOP, one of the things that I wanted to ask you about, and I’m glad to catch up with you, is that you also have been a leader when it comes to impact sourcing, which, of course, is using the outsourcing industry to have a positive social impact.
And tell me, you know, how did you first get involved in that?
Jon Yarlett: So, first, it’s good to see you. Always good to see you.
And I would say I got involved in it probably about five years ago, and it was really kind of in tandem, where I’d been on a trip to South Africa, and I was opened up to this concept of providing meaningful employment, inclusive hiring from marginalized communities. So they were looking at people who essentially have been long-term unemployed, and so we would go on on-site visits to various contact centers and into their training departments, and we would hear stories from these most amazing young people who were coming from a lot of different kinds of hard backgrounds.
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Whether that be domestic abuse, whether they had been through poverty, lack of education, and BPO and contact centers had essentially allowed them to come out of that life. And then alongside that, as you know, we do a lot of work with the IAOP, and they have a chapter on social impacts. Several sessions at some of their flagship events were around impact sourcing, and I was lucky enough to meet people like Jon Browning and Sara Enright, and it just really struck a nerve with me; it really kind of made me think, “Why isn’t everyone doing this?” You know, as an industry, we should be doing more of this.
Cognitive Business: You know, you’re right. And I remember, you know, Jon Browning also, of course, a leader in the space. But I remember in 2017, you and I were in South Africa, and one of the things that impressed me and stayed with me to this day is that I remember you were holding the outsourcing firm’s feet to the fire. Because I remember, you asked a question when we had the session, and it was kind of a feel-good session, and they were going, “Oh, look how great we are.” And you said, “Look, you know, it’s great that you’re hiring all these people, but why aren’t any of them in management?”
“Why do we just see them on the floor?” And I was like, “Wow,” you know, “Jon’s going after them.” And that is something that’s needed, because it’s one thing to have a kind of window dressing and say, “Look how great we are.” But then we also see other companies that do it the right way, and they take it and internalize it in their culture. I’ve seen companies where, you know, I remember somebody who’s now a senior executive in our industry, but she started 30 years ago on the phones in the Philippines.
And she’s now in I forget the name right now, but is now an industry leader. And I think that here we saw some interesting presentations at IAOP. Looking forward to hearing more in a few months in Chicago. But tell me how you’ve seen the awareness evolve when it comes to impact sourcing in the industry.
Jon Yarlett: Yeah. So, I think overall the awareness has been really good. I think that we still fight our daily battles, right? So we still fight battles in terms of educating people to what impact sourcing is, to push in facts; the fact that it’s not charity, you know, we’re not doing someone a favor just to make us look good. What we’re doing is going into an untapped pool of really kind of skilled labor and hungry workers.
Jon Yarlett: So there’s an education job to do. There’s still the issue that the term “impact sourcing,” whilst we use it and others use it, a lot of people don’t use that term.
Cognitive Business: Right.
Jon Yarlett: But still do it. So they’ll put it under “DEI,” or “ESG,” or “CSR.”
Cognitive Business: Social responsibility, yeah.
Jon Yarlett: In terms of career progression for impact workers, I was in South Africa a couple of years ago, and I think that it’s a lot better. So I’ve seen guys come iasat entry-level agents. Not all will follow this path.
Cognitive Business: Right.
Jon Yarlett: But some come in, they show themselves, they’re hungry, they want to work, they want to kind of get as much money as they can, and they progress. And on the money side of things, you know, we’re seeing statistics that show, you know, the wage of an impact worker directly affects or directly kind of contributes to, you know, five other people. So, that might be other family members, where they’re paying for education. It may be that the mother or father doesn’t have to work as many jobs as they were working. So, you know, there’s a real big push with these guys, because they’re hungry and they’re hard workers.
Cognitive Business: You know, you’re right. And I’ve seen where outsourcing firms have been a conduit. You and I were in Kenya recently, and I remember the stories that the CCI employees were talking about. Some young women were able to achieve financial independence and come out of some desperate situations. It’s stirring to hear their stories. I’ve seen in Colombia where people in the lesbian and gay community in pretty conservative countries have found places where they’re accepted, and they’re able to work and flourish. We look at India, of course, the caste system persists.
Unfortunately, and things like that. And this has provided a way for people, no matter what they are like, ethnic tribe in Rwanda, or situations like that, to find a way out. My last question for you is: What is the role of the buy-side? You know, you have the outsourcing firm, and they might have their own progressive policies and corporate culture.
But what is the role to play when it comes to their clients? When a client is engaging an outsourcing firm, whether it’s IT or CX, what role does that client have to play at the other end of the value chain?
Jon Yarlett: So, I think typically suppliers will change their mindset or their way of doing things only really if they’re getting pressure from their client.
Right? Interestingly, we are seeing that the number of RFPs coming out from the buy-side in the UK, increasingly are kind of talking about and wanting some form of CSR, ESG impact sourcing. So they’re already talking about it. Also, some great organizations in the UK are leading the way, where they have programs now to recruit those who are disabled, those who are ex-incarcerated. So we’re seeing a lot of kinds of those outreach programs. Really and truly, I think what a lot of the buyers need to do is just to keep banging the drum and, you know, keep saying to their suppliers, “This is an important issue, and we are more inclined to look at vendors who are operating this kind of impact sourcing policy.” It’s always going to come down to cost lowering, you know, it’s always going to be the nature of outsourcing, it’s going to be what is the best option from a cost point of view.
Cognitive Business: Right.
Jon Yarlett: But there’s no reason why they also can’t look at the social impact side of things, you know? The retention and the loyalty, and when you look at all of these things long-term, they save you money, because you’re not losing people.
You know, you’re not having to kind of retrain, and we get people in. And I think that what people need to understand is, and it sounds drastic, it’s that, with what we’re talking about, you know, well, BPO isn’t just providing jobs, it’s saving lives.
Cognitive Business: Yeah.
Jon Yarlett: And, you know, it’s so important, and we should all be doing our bit.
Cognitive Business: You know, we’ve seen it around the world. We’ve seen examples not just in North and South America and Africa and Asia, and so fortunately, and you know, there have been leaders like you in this initiative when it comes to, you know, those of us that are on the editorial and advisory side, but then we also look at so many, too many to name, proactive companies that we’ve seen that have made this part of their DNA. But then, of course, as it comes too on the buy-side, people pushing and saying, you know, “We expect you to be responsible.”
“We expect you to go above and beyond.” How can people find out about one, of course, Intelligent Sourcing, which is the leading magazine, and also the Impact Sourcing Alliance?
Jon Yarlett: Okay, so, Intelligent Sourcing is “intelligentsourcing.net, Impact Sourcing Alliance is “impactsourcingalliance.com,” and in terms of Impact Sourcing as well, there are a lot of different organizations to look at. Look at Tent, they do a lot of work with displaced refugees. You can look for a program within your location, programs positive about disabled people. You can look at the local prison release systems in the area. And also, you can look at the IAOP; their social impact chapter is full of information. So yeah, I think it’s important to understand what it is we’re talking about for people that don’t know to educate themselves, to see the benefits, and that there are places you can go to.
Cognitive Business: Great. Keep up the good work.
Jon Yarlett: Thank you.
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